A Dream, and the Key to Myself

A Dream of a Key, and the Way Home

Irene

Hi, Caroline.

Caroline

Hello.

Irene

It's such an honor to have you here.

Caroline

It's an honor to be here.

Irene

Thank you for joining us. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Caroline

So I took Ho'oponopono for the first time in 1984. And, I was not, I was just lost. I didn't know who I was. I was going through a hard time and I was lost.

Irene

May I ask how old you were at that time?

Caroline

I was 24. And I'd heard about it from a friend and I knew that I wanted to take it. It was the first thing that ever really resonated with me. But it was back in a time where things were just getting started. And so I had to wait for a class to be available and then for some other reasons. So I finally took my first class.

I remember going, I don't know what this is, but there was something in me that knew I was to be there. And after my first, back then we took a lecture and then that was prior to taking the two-day training. And I remember after, I think maybe it was after the class, I can't remember that, but I remember I had a dream, that night. And when I was experiencing some kind of doubt, this dream really solidified it for me.

So in that dream, I had a dream that I was given a key, and so to me, it was the key to myself. I since remember, but it was significant. It was like, you're in the right place. That's how I felt. Even though my mind said, I don't understand this because I came in and I took a whole bunch of notes and I was trying to everything, tiny little things, writing and all, thinking that I would be able to, and then it took, for these basic concepts that we talk about in Ho'oponopono, it took me a long time to really, because it is a doing process, for them to be part of me, these concepts, to really be a part of me.

But I found that after, it's about, for me, I didn't know who I was. And so it was just about just keep cleaning and applying these things that these blemishes and these blocks that, for so many eons of time have been keeping me from the Divinity and who I was. But I always felt, I always had some, I always, I still, no matter how messed up I was, I still prayed, I still believed in God. And so now I just have had such a, now it's a living, breathing relationship, so it's not an intellectual concept.

It was like, you're in the right place. That's how I felt.

Irene

That's really beautifully said. Yes, that's, you don't because everybody has their own belief or feeling, but through Ho'oponopono, you really, it's actual doing to have a relationship through me to connect the Divinity, which is such a beautiful thing.

Caroline

And you have to do it, you have to clear the deck with the stuff that's happening in order to get there, back to ourselves. And I would say in the long run, the most comfortable thing for me is that, we say in Ho'oponopono that we can come back to ourselves as the Divinity created us. And that experience of that, well, who am I? It's like you've got a closet of clothes and you put these clothes on and these clothes are just not the right thing, but then all of a sudden the clothes appear and you put them on and it's like, wow, this feels right.

This feels really more of who I am. So I'm getting to know myself at my age. I'm still getting to know myself and who I am. And, the clothes that fit me that are just right, And I do really believe I love music, love music. And I really feel that, we all have this song, this music within us that is ours, uniquely ours, that we were created for, And so the beauty to me of all of this is that when we realize that we can be connected at a spiritual level, as one, then we're this beautiful Divine orchestra, that we're just all, we're playing this Divine music because, and I'm not going to be the one that's out of tune in that orchestra, although I'm often out of tune, but I can tune back up, just by doing a Ho'oponopono. But I love that because I think, it's a reminder for myself that we just have this within us, this whatever it is that is uniquely us.

Irene

Very much, yes. Your own melody, my own melody, right? Yes, and the rhythm. But then somehow it's a whole perfect orchestra.

Caroline

There was something that during COVID, there was a lot of this online music being created, and there's chorus, a lot of these choirs that are online. And there was one that really moved me and I can't remember the name of it, but anyway, it was vocals and there were a thousand people from all over the world. And somehow they put these together, but then the visual that went with it was so moving to me. It brought me to tears.

It was like this visual of, this piece coming together and this one floating in and then this one coming in as this music was being sung by a thousand people all over the world, but coming together. And then these pieces all coming together and linking. And then there's this whole, I got chills even talking about it, but that was so inspirational for me and really moved me and reminded me of Ho'oponopono.

How Fast Our Time with Children Goes

Irene

Thank you. I think it's beautiful. recently, how I experienced this, that it's, for me, it's like, all those mothers, with career or without career, just raising the children in such a busy life, for me, it's like, wow. I'm very always impressed overall, and then overwhelmed. Yes. But still, somehow, we juggle, right?

But then, I realized how the time passed so fast. My daughter is almost 10, and then still young, right? Yeah. Still a few more years to be with me. Yes. Still, for me, it's like, where all the time goes.

Caroline

It is really true. It's a blink of an eye, really.

It's a blink of an eye, really.

Irene

And then, recently, that fact really, very shocked me.

Regret, Loss, and a New Stage of Life

Irene

But this experience is something that very always scares me, that both being the parent for my children, but also as a child to my parents, I feel like things we cannot get back. Yes. The regrets. Because once I realized, okay, now I can do something for my parents or grandparents, especially my grandmother is 95, and she's still very independent, but I see this. Now she doesn't have that much of the energy and passion to go outside to do something with me, right?

It's totally, I know, a normal thing, but all of a sudden that overwhelmed me. The thing is now it's not the time anymore.

Caroline

Right. You know that. But that, we have Ho'oponopono. Thank God for that, because those regrets, my mother passed away two years ago, and I have a lot of things that come up, the things I wish I would have done. But thank God for the cleaning,

Irene

How did you clean with those things? How do you describe it in words? Is that regret?

Caroline

Regrets, yes. A lot of regrets. When I do my cleaning and it comes up, when I do it in the morning, I include her every day. But I have not really worked on the emotions and the thoughts, although we're going through something with the settling of the estate right now. So it is bringing up a lot of family stuff, which is pretty intense.

But I think one of the things when I realized my husband died, my mother died, my kids moved out, and it was like a whole new stage of life. And I couldn't find my footing at first. It's a new path, and it's unfamiliar to me totally. And I'm still trying to get my bearings with it all. But it's a new path, created, brand new.

So I think at this time in life, because of how it went upon it, I'm not painting this elderly, you have to fit into this sort of certain expectations and thinking about dying. It doesn't mean that anymore. With Ho'oponopono, this could be the culmination of the best of life. Lessons learned, maybe some wisdom gleaned along the way.

And then now the freedom to really do and move as we're inspired without those sort of obligations and obligations, but they're roles that we played before. Now the role is completely individual. And kids are doing good. Everybody's tucked in and all okay. And now who am I and what am I doing now?

That's been the past few, maybe the past year, especially after leaving a full-time job. And then really that was the last holdout of a previous life. So now it's all brand new.

With Ho'oponopono, this could be the culmination of the best of life.

Irene

That sounds so beautiful to me that I feel that, as you said, it is a freedom from the comparing from the past or that attachment to the future.

Caroline

And attachment to roles. As mother, daughter, employee, all of those things. It's a letting go of all those roles. This is the beginning. It's a brand new path.

Irene

This is a fresh presence at this moment, right?

Caroline

Yeah, it's a fresh experience of life without all of these other things. I'm still getting used to it. I'm still not, I'm not,

Letting Our Children Go, from Within

Irene

How can you actually open yourself to this new place? Because I feel that every time I think that being pure and then, like a child to meet at this moment, the brand new thing is always the key to fully being a participant in this right now, like today. Yes. This present, right? Yes. How would you, you accomplish a lot of things and you have a beautiful family. So if I were you, I could easily get attached to that.

Caroline

Very much. But I've been able to let go. I've realized that, in the beginning when my boys were on their own, I'd call them and say, hey, what's going on? How are you guys doing? And my son, my oldest especially, has said, mom, I'm fine. Nothing's new here.

This is what my mom used to do. My mom would call me and be like, yeah, it's still the same as last week. But then I realized a couple of things. I would be thinking, why don't they come visit? Blah, blah, blah. But I'm learning so much about how to apply the idea of it's an inside job.

It's not an outside job. So there's nothing I can do that could… Change somebody's mind about, "Gee, I need to call my mom," or, "Maybe I'll go see my mom." It's like when you do the cleaning, if they show up, it's because they want to be there. They're not children anymore where I direct them.

This is their own life now, So there's that. There's that letting go of the control and expectations of that, and really just being. But if it wasn't for Ho'oponopono, I don't know what I would do, because you can really clean up the thoughts that I have about being in this space, and all the emotions and the fears that I have.

I had a real fear about money, Real fear, leaving a job. I've worked full-time since I was 16 years old. And to not be reporting to an employer is just… And actually being on my own is a really new thing. So I've been loving it and trying to live more in today as opposed to looking down the road and going, "Oh my God, what's going to happen to me? I'm going to run out of money. What's going to happen? I'm scared."

All of those fears, it's really just not knowing but just taking a step, And then taking another step. So, it felt strange to be in… It's like being in a new world, But yet, I know that it's a gift. So, I appreciate it. And the people who I've known and loved and cared for slowly are dying, My mother, family members, relationships, some ties, family ties coming to an end, Kids moving on in their lives. So, it's a good spot.

It's always ongoing, my experiences. There's never… This is a good place to be. And actually, I'm freer now to do more with… I can coordinate classes now. I'm more available if people need me to instruct. So, I'm not tied down to a full-time job or I have to get permission to leave or, vacation time and all that kind of stuff.

So now I'm free to be able to do what I want. I don't know if you want to include this, but what I would add is that it's because of the cleaning that the pathway opened up. It's only because of Ho'oponopono. Yeah, and it's not… We open… I don't know every time we do the cleaning, and I don't know anything about pathways.

I know this one is… This is new for me, brand new. So that's only from the cleaning.

There's that letting go of the control and expectations of that, and really just being.

Old Memories, Cleaning at a Bedside

Irene

That's beautiful, because that reminds me of something, my tendency, that, out of nowhere, all of a sudden, one of the thoughts comes up to me, and then, oh, I don't have… I'm not enough with this something, right? For example, oh… For example, this kind of interview, I feel like, I should have studied English more?

Just natural, and then that's maybe true. But then, once that idea comes to me, I feel like I almost lost myself. That starts really covering me that more… Take me to the fear. Oh, that's why I'm not enough with this. And then, but then I'm trying to go to my action, but at the moment, I already have a lot of fears, and then, something rushes, and then pressure, and everything, right?

And then I'm trying to search, English tutor or something, but that whole process is nothing pleasing. It just makes me feel smaller. Yes, but then when you mentioned that Ho'oponopono is the only way that gives you the path, that really inspires me that I really would like to clean this, one thought came that maybe, let's say, I should study English or I should study more speaking overall. Then I clean and I realize, I feel I'm not enough. Yes. And then I clean, I clean. And then you will say that my perfect path will open up. Is that correct?

Caroline

When we do the cleaning, then the results are up to the Divinity. But we change every time we do the cleaning because we are removing, we keep coming back to ourselves, so we change. So we're not the same. So how that manifests in your life is between you and the Divinity, but we can open pathways. We're not opening pathways intentionally, but it can be the result of the cleaning.

New pathways, yeah. Yes. I never saw this coming. I never saw this. I never saw myself at this point doing this in my life at this point. But I know what you mean about that not being enough, and it's so amazing to me. I can feel one moment, have all kinds of things come up like this, insecurities and all kinds of things and not enough. And then I do my cleaning, and it can totally turn around.

And then I realized, wow, that is the intensity of memories replaying. It's so intense that you think it's the experience. When we know from Ho'oponopono, that's not the experience. That's not who we are. It's just memories replaying. But then we accept that. We dive into it. We are it. And then, oh, my God, I'm going to screw up this weekend, and I'm going to forget things, and it's all this bad stuff.

But the beautiful thing about that is we can take it all, put it in a cleaning. Just take it all and say, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know. I'm having this sense. I don't know what's going to happen here, and I'm sorry. And I put that in the cleaning. I have found that to be so helpful for me. And I found that sometimes things can just turn on a dime.

It doesn't mean that we have to hold on to this stuff and then keep getting more and more and more? We just let it go. We just put it into cleaning, petition to the Divinity, and then, see what happens. But we don't, but I'm seeing more and more the experience.

I talk about being in memory, but I'm actually experiencing for myself, wow, this is memories. These are just memories we're playing, totally. And then, but there's a part of me that believes that this is real, So, but I know then when I can release all that and in the cleaning, then I go, wow, what was that, So it can, you can change, it can turn on under time, really.

And I found a lot of that when I was dealing, cleaning with my husband, I just found this, it's this little thing about Ho'oponopono is that when we realize that we're just cleaning with our experience, it's our experience of life. It doesn't mean that this is really how it is. It can turn on a dime.

We're willing to just petition and say, okay, I'm having this experience, the cause is in me. I did that moment by moment, especially, I learned that moment by moment when I was cleaning with my husband when he was in a coma. All my fears just coming up and I just apply a tool, deep fears, apply a tool, wanting things to work out, don't want him to die, whatever. All these things that came up were just, and then realizing that my husband, even though it looked like it was him, even though I'm walking around, he has doctors, he's in the hospital, he has heart disease, all of this is real.

But when I really get to the cleaning, when I accept the fact that there's nothing outside of myself, then I go, wow, even this experience, even this experience is within me. And that realization helped me to get to more cleaning. It's a really profound thing. And it was profound for me because there I am knowing or thinking that I know the outcome of what's going to happen to him.

And he was seriously ill. But the cleaning helped me to, by the time that he did transition, it was so much less painful. And it was more of an acceptance.

When we know from Ho'oponopono, that's not the experience. That's not who we are. It's just memories replaying.

Irene

That's something we all want.

Caroline

So I'm not in control of him. And Divinity has the plan for him. And so it was time to go for him. And he went.

Relationships Without Trying to Control

Irene

It's such a beautiful and respectful relationship that if I can see my partner or family or whoever, that I fully believe or just feel that they're in the right place and I'm in the right place, I wish that I have that kind of relationship.

Caroline

Well, I can only speak for myself. When I was a parent, you do your best. You just do your best. There's a lot of physical things that you have to do when you're a parent. But, for example, being in a relationship right now is so different because I did a lot of controlling and managing as a mother, as an employee, and in my relationship, it was really much looking at that this exists outside myself and trying to control it.

This time, I know better. This time, I know I have no control over this other person. I have no control over whether this person is going to be in my life or not going to be in my life. No control. I can't do enough. I can't, whatever. I can't. There's no way I can control it, and I know that. And what I do is come from the cleaning.

So it's funny because we would go out and I would find some time. We'd spend like a weekend together. I would find time to go clean and meditate. And whatever I was experiencing, I took it all, put it into my cleaning for the Divinity. And I just say this because sometimes I couldn't ever find the words for it. I couldn't find the right words, and that was part of the problem when I first took the class is that I didn't know how to describe what's happening, So I say this, and Divinity would know what it is, and I'm putting it in, I found that then I really realized if this is to be, it's going to come naturally, and it's going to come not from me doing anything or doing anything crazy or special or whatever.

It's going to happen by Divine, And I decided I was going to work with this in that way. But the temptation is to want to get back into control, seriously. And it's not that stuff doesn't come up. It's not like this is, total bliss. It's just always a chance to clean. But it's hard when you're a mom. I'm saying it's hard.

I'm not going to, maybe it's not for you. Some people do it with ease, but I remember you've got a lot, you just have a lot of physical things to do? But you've got the cleaning.

Irene

And I really like the way you said that, the thing is here. So we're still doing things, and then still the temptation comes, and then we say stuff, do stuff, either you like it or you regret it. It's every day it is happening. But every time when we put all our experience into cleaning, we're changing, right? We're just, the changes are happening, either you feel it or not.

Caroline

Well, so here's what I would say is that when we petition to Ho'oponopono, and then Divinity responds, and then we know how that works, so whatever is meant to go is going to go at whatever the right time is, and we don't know any of that. But we aren't the same just from doing the cleaning. And so for me, my experience was the more and more I'm willing to do that. I never noticed it. I'm not going, oh, wow, I just did the cleaning, my life has changed. It's not like that.

For me, it wasn't like that, But it's after a while I go, wow. And for me, where I am today, I feel it's because I was willing, to stick with it and just keep the cleaning going. And I'm grateful that I did that.

But we aren't the same just from doing the cleaning.

When I Was Grateful for Ho'oponopono

Irene

Next question. Sorry. So in your life, has there been a moment when you truly felt, I'm so glad I had Ho'oponopono? Could you share that kind of experience?

Caroline

I would say, there's lots of moments there. One that comes to mind is when I was pregnant with my first son and I was in the hospital and I was in labor and they discovered that the umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck. So, my husband and I were sitting there doing Ho'oponopono. We had our book with us and we were doing Ho'oponopono and, he came out fine.

But to me, that was really life-saving. It was extraordinary. But there's just so many different situations. My husband's health issues, that was a profound experience for me. It taught me more about myself, And what looked like a painful situation was really, I came to see as quite a gift.

And what looked like a painful situation was really, I came to see as quite a gift.

Irene

I also feel that, everybody's experience is all different, but I sometimes feel like, especially when very painful things happen to someone else, not me, but family or someone closest, but not me. Those moments I get most fearful, painful because I feel helpless. And in those moments, like I told you, my tendency, I started running to just without thoughts, but trying to figure out what's the best.

But those moments, I lost myself and then all covered up my oldest, very negative feelings. And then that's why, through Ho'oponopono, even in such a situation, this process led me, come back to myself, is so profound.

Caroline

Yes, it really is. It's such a unique approach. It's really unique. And so I get more and more grateful the longer I've been doing this. It changes. It's not like the stagnant thing that you learn it and that's it. It changes as you change and coming back to the Divinity as we are created and being more ourselves, our perceptions, everything, our experience changes. That's the beautiful thing.

Irene

Can you describe, explain why we need to get back to myself? First place, more than anything.

Caroline

Well, what I love about this is we have the choice. So we can, stay, where we are. We can just keep going as we go or we can take responsibility and say, okay, I'm not comfortable with this life. I have a lot of problems and I'm tired of it now. I think probably that's how I felt when I came in. I knew it was kind of a desperate situation.

And I don't know. I think that it's, for me. I have to say, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I was kind of driven by it. I was driven. There was something in me that just kept persevering. And because in my heart, I knew that this was the right thing. I wanted peace in my life. And I thought, as we've talked, that I was going to have a life of bliss and peace after taking a couple of classes.

But I've had those wondrous experiences cleaning. And it's those experiences that I go, yeah, okay, I'm going to keep working with this. And then the way I see the world and the way I see myself changes. So it's all of that. It's not one sort of thing. It's being motivated by these experiences and then going, wow, yeah, this is cool. It's like the cleaning begets more cleaning.

Caring for Unihipili in Daily Life

Irene

We often hear about the importance of caring for Unihipili, right? And the inner child. And then Caroline, how do you personally take care of your Unihipili in daily life? Because learning Ho'oponopono and then intellectually really, I think, understand how important it is to take care of your inner child, Unihipili.

But I often realize how arrogant and very controlling I am. So would you share with us, how do you take care of your Unihipili? How do you remind yourself to get back to the place of being a good mother for your own child?

Caroline

Yeah, that took me a long time, really, to work with that. And for me, it's not like a ritual of any kind. It's really more I'm reminded when I do the cleaning. And there are certain things that I really enjoy doing when I do my cleaning. And there are certain ways we all find our way, what works for us. But I like it. It's the time when I'm quiet.

So it's really more when I'm quiet. And then I have that chance to talk with my Unihipili and do the things that we do to take care of them. And for me, I don't know, the relationship just developed over time. So now my Unihipili has very unique ways of communicating with me and I love it. I just love it because it took me a long time to understand that that's a part of me.

That's a being that is part of me. And that took a while, a long time. I'm still working with it. But when I get these communications, I know. It's like, yeah, okay. And they're beautiful.

So now my Unihipili has very unique ways of communicating with me and I love it.

Irene

Do you have any advice for the people who are asking the question about how I can get connected with Unihipili again? Or, people sometimes say I cannot visualize that myself. What's your advice for it?

Caroline

Well, I was never a visual person either. I was never able to conjure up these things. I couldn't do that. That wasn't me. But we teach in class the best way. We really teach in class. And to me, that's the way to get started, because we don't know. For me, I was so separated from myself, really separated from myself. So it took a long time of working with this. But we give out good tools in the class.

Cleaning in Advance for Relationships

Irene

Thank you. I want to ask about the relationship with people, not just, partnership, but like friends or socials. I'm sometimes overwhelmed by that interaction with people overall. I feel like I burn out. I lost myself. At the end of the day, I get so exhausted.

And then at the moment, I realize something and then start cleaning and then that. But can you share or describe something about how, through Ho'oponopono, we can make a difference in our relationships with people?

Caroline

Yeah, I feel like I was really the same way. I, early on, had some friendships, but navigating those was not always the easiest thing. But, Divinity put me in the path of working with people professionally. So I work with people a lot all day. And for some reason, I learned to love that.

But I met some really great people. And I think by doing Ho'oponopono, as I have this better relationship with myself, I attract people with whom we have some nice ways of connecting. But I also have the opportunity to clean with the ones and the things that come up when stuff comes up and it always does. But for me, it's kind of finding that rhythm, because you can clean with all your friends. You can keep putting them in.

I put a list of people I put in every day. And I find that the quality of the interactions is richer, really richer. And then, what the cleaning also does is it opens up, if there are new people that are meant to come into your life, they do that, too. So I found a comfort level with that.

But in the beginning, I was very, especially professionally, I was very nervous and unsure of myself. And it's not that that doesn't happen. But, cleaning has helped so much.

Irene

That's very great to hear. Because, a lack of confidence, through the relationship with the professional or, more private life. Sometimes I often realize that because I lack confidence at that moment. I don't know. It's like a chemistry. I don't know that person led me to show a lack of confidence.

I don't know what's really happening, but sometimes comparison or compete, naturally, sometimes I don't know, they emerge in between the conversation. And then at the end of the day, why did I do that game? Why did I say such stuff? Or why I put myself so low? You know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, we recall what happened in that maybe 30 minutes or one hour of conversation with the person. And then somehow I regret so much. Or I feel damaged. Yeah, I treat myself small, little. How can we start cleaning with it?

Caroline

So that very experience we can clean with, and I can relate to that. I think sometimes it can take a long time. We don't know. We have these things that we don't know where they came from. We don't know the timing. And that's the thing about Ho'oponopono is that we put it into the cleaning and we really don't have the expectation that all of a sudden it's just going to go. All of a sudden I'm going to go out there and I'm going to feel great, But so sometimes, I've been working on stuff for years and years and years, But with Ho'oponopono, we can clean before.

So first thing. So when we sit down and we go, oh, I'm going to see this person. I've got a lot of anxiety about this. I have a lot of fear about it. I have found that cleaning in advance helped me a lot professionally. And then as I started to have these good experiences. And then that just built on the other, it started to change for me.

But the cleaning in advance, and then if you think you screwed up or something that didn't go right or went wrong, you can clean after. So just staying with it for me has changed. As we change doing the cleaning, our experiences change.

As we change doing the cleaning, our experiences change.

Irene

Right. Thank you. Very practical. It sounds really practical to me.

Caroline

But I understand. You think, oh my gosh, I've been cleaning with this for years. When is it gonna go? Well, and to me, I'm just saying for myself, it's arrogant to think. That we have accumulated these memories over eons of time and that in one lifetime, we're gonna clean it all up, I also think to that, that Divinity put me in jobs where I was dealing with people, so I could clean with it. It was a blessing.